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Having trouble liking this game 
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Post Having trouble liking this game
I really want to like this game! It offers nothing new, though. I feel like I'm playing Rift or WoW with a shitty UI(I'll let the endless list of bugs slide since it's early.) The story was great. I knew it would be. It is over now -- and way, way too early! Make an alt to experience more story? "Story" was Bioware's strong point. And it seems "story" was their only strong point.

I'll monitor their progress, but I hate playing a game that feels like it's still in beta. I think I should follow Vyrzain's advice and only start a game after it's six months old.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:14 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Having been one of the biggest naysayers of this game coming into it, I'd love to hear you expand on your opinion. Maybe I'm looking at things through a bit of rose-colored glasses because I'm really enjoying the story still (and I'm only lvl 34 so I have a good bit left to go).

I think we all knew coming in (and I think Bioware said as much) that there wouldn't really be any reinvention of the MMO-wheel here so I'm not surprised you feel like you're playing WoW or Rift. But I'd ask: What would have made it novel enough that you wouldn't "feel" like you're playing one of those games? Truth be told, every game since DAoC has basically felt the same (I don't go back as far as EQ because EQ was all auto-attack for combat).

DAoC added interactive combat; but the mechanics were basically the same.
WoW added the concept of quests; but the mechanics were basically the same.
WAR added the concept of public quests; but the mechanics were basically the same.
Aion added the concept of flying; but the mechanics were basically the same.
Rift added the concept of easily changeable spec; but the mechanics were basically the same.
SWTOR added story; but the mechanics were basically the same.

As far as feeling like a beta; I think they could go a long way if they fix some of the more glaring issues (such as getting stuck in combat, companion abilities getting switched back on without any warning, etc) but I'd love to hear what else is troubling you here.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Oh, and on the UI concerns--yes, it's crap. Complete crap. it amazes me that one of the big things WoW did back in the day was build a totally customizable interface and yet no one seems to do that now. Aion, Rift, and SWTOR--none of these have had any level of UI customization.

I personally found Trion's excuse the most laughable--they don't want addons that "do the work for you" in a game which has a macro system that basically lets you create one-button-spam macros.

I feel like some level of macros (or just ability consolidation) would help SWTOR as well. Right now I feel like I have far too many abilities to wrangle.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I haven't played in a couple days and I'm already finding it somewhat difficult to log back in.

The game is solid but basic. The RPG aspect is limited and very linear. The story is great but
I might as well watch a movie if I just want cut scenes.

PvP is atrocious for my current class and I'm finding it difficult to start a 4th class and start
so far behind everyone again. Arena PVP is bogus and annoying especially with pugs.

While I find the crafting intriguing, its also very limited. I think there are too many different
crafts and it would have been much more compelling to craft if some where combined. The separation
of force and non force in weapons and armor is sound in reasoning but sucks for gameplay. It would
be fine if there was just more to create overall i think. I dunno but it just feels broken in some way.

Space combat missions... Love them but I feel like I'm playing a different game altogether.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Narco wrote:
While I find the crafting intriguing, its also very limited. I think there are too many different
crafts and it would have been much more compelling to craft if some where combined. The separation
of force and non force in weapons and armor is sound in reasoning but sucks for gameplay. It would
be fine if there was just more to create overall i think. I dunno but it just feels broken in some way.


It feels to my like the tact with crafting was a bit different than most games. Crafting is typically seen as some way to make stuff for other people. It feels, to me, that the main goal of crafting was to make it beneficial to the crafter. In that regard, I've found it incredibly successful. I've already used more stuff that I've crafted for myself than I'd used ever in WoW or DAoC. I really like the idea that the reward for being a crafter should be using what you make. I can see your point if you don't like viewing it that way (or maybe biochem is just that useful so I've got a bias).

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:47 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Understood but for example:

Artificing as a Marauder.
I can make like 4 different color gems, 2 different hilts, 2 enhancements and like 4 generator things that I have no idea what they
are for. Out of that (not including the upgraded versions you can figure out by reverse engineering) I can use 1 gem 1 enhancement
and 1 hilt every 3 levels (actually I use multiple enhancements for armor as well but its always the same type).

Sure every three levels I get to have a crafting spree to try to get the best items I can at that level then once thats done I do
nothing for three more levels. I guess I could just try to max out each item I can make but theres no fun in spending a lot of time
and money on trying to create an item that will be obsolete in 3 level and besides that nobody is really looking for anyway. I've put
quite a few items on the market and they just don't sell or they don't sell for much at all. Then on the reverse side, any gems or material
i need to make a purple item is ridiculously priced, I cant even sell the item for the material costs.

So basically every three levels i can upgrade my sabers and add some better enhancements to my orange armor pieces. Keeping in
mind that I'd also have to buy my other OJ armor stuff like mods and armoring and mods for my sabers too if I want to keep these
things updated.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:19 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Every MMO from here on out is going to be more of the same. No one is going to try and reinvent the wheel. They just look to improve on certain aspects of things. If they can add some "meaningful" PvP I will be happy. Currently Ilum is just lame. If we had actual control points like bunkers & bases it would be much better.

But I won't say the game is bad. Eternity Vault is pretty good and I like what they did with some of the fights. Not just your normal tank & spank bosses. And I can't wait to see the new bosses they are adding to Karagga's Palace.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I agree that the game is good and if I was a Sta Wars fanboi I'd probably be all busting a nut every time I logged in but I can't escape
the feeling that this is a single player game that was forced into being an MMO.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
In other posts of mine before the game was released, you'll notice that I was fully expecting to be playing the "same old" MMO, but the story would be better. Bioware didn't let me down in my expectations of what the game would be.

Nalthien wrote:
Maybe I'm looking at things through a bit of rose-colored glasses because I'm really enjoying the story still (and I'm only lvl 34 so I have a good bit left to go).

I was loving the game while I was still into my class questing line, too. At level 34, I wanted to slow down. I tried to. But, here I am at max level with my story-line complete and it took less than a month. So, the thing that made this game "novel" is now done for me -- at least until they expand it in some future patch. All that is left is the stuff that is "old hat." If that "old hat" content felt put-together well, I probably wouldn't complain. But, now I'm kind of bored.

Class-line/Story: A- (well done, but too short)
Other quests: A- (run-of-the-mill, but entertaining with the full voice-overs)
Companions: A- (Bioware is good with most of their RPG aspects and how they flesh out characters. some bugs remain, but will be fixed)
UI: D- (Bioware has struggled with making pleasant UI's in all their games actually)
World PvP: D (no faction balance; lack of meaningful content and/or objectives. WAR had better)
Warzones: C- (a few novel ideas thrown in there, but only 3 zones means it's stale fast; also affected by faction balance issues[except Huttball.] WAR had better)
Crafting/GTN: B- (can't complain, but can't praise it. GTN interface is as clunky as the rest of the UI)
Flashpoints/Operations: B (decent enough; lots of bugs still, but they will eventually be ironed out. Rift and WoW had more engaging content, imo.)
Space Missions: B (this is really just a side game. entertaining, but gets old fast. doesn't really influence my opinion of the MMO)
Class customization: C (I'm definitely biased here after playing Rift -- a game with the best customization I've ever seen in an MMO! But, I knew about TOR's lack of customization before playing)

Is it a bad game? No. My beef is just that the class story seemed to go by way too fast. And I've logged so little time in this game to achieve maximum level. The RPG portion was over before I knew it. In any case, I received a three-month playtime gift last Christmas, so I'll be around, at least, that long. I'm sure things will get better over that time-frame, too.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Lazaric and I were talking about it this morning; and I said it right at the start when i heard that people were hitting max-level before December was over...

MMOs these days are just too fucking fast. No, I'm not asking for the "good ol days" back in EQ when going from lvl 35-36 could take 24 hours of play time. Nor am I asking for pacing based somewhat on the fact that you'd often spend time in these old games traveling across the world or looking for a group (aka, non-productive time). But MMOs (since WoW sped up the 1-60 experience after TBC was launched) seem to have eroded into this mentality of: "Leveling is the necessary evil that you go through to get to max-level so you can do the real stuff (which, inevitably, isn't actually as fun as the leveling itself was).

That, more than anything, discourages me about MMOs these days. Things just aren't tuned right if you can go from 1-50 in 2 weeks.

But one only has to look at how badly Aion fared in the US to see what happens to the cash flow for these companies when they swing the pendulum too far the other direction.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Actually, I rather liked Aion's leveling pace. The problem I had when I reached level 40 in that game, though, was that they failed to put in enough quests to keep me leveling. I didn't have anything to do.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Blackbird wrote:
Actually, I rather liked Aion's leveling pace. The problem I had when I reached level 40 in that game, though, was that they failed to put in enough quests to keep me leveling. I didn't have anything to do.


You, me, and a few others. But ultimately, that type of game doesn't make nearly as much money as something fast. Always follow the money and you'll see the motivation behind decisions.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I am just hoping that The Secret World or Dominus (low budget game) have better PvP models. They both have 3 factions that are to battle it out over different things. TSW has already said that their PvP zones will be separate from their PvE zones (DAoC Frontier style). And that you will fight over control of magical areas like Stone Henge, Mayan Temples, and more.

SWToR can do more with their PvP and they have said they have more PvP planets in the works. But we can only hope that they will have meaningful PvP on them.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Nalthien wrote:
Always follow the money and you'll see the motivation behind decisions.

QFT Isn't this the United States' motto? If not, it should be!

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Quote:
If they can add some "meaningful" PvP I will be happy. Currently Ilum is just lame.


Quote:
MMOs these days are just too fucking fast.



These are the two quotes that stand out for me from above.

Fast leveling would be fine with a good Novel / Story but only if an End Game is the goal.

This Game is not sounding like it was made with anything to do other then wait for the next expansion and maybe more levels. As Lodi would say, if the Game was not made with PvP from the start it would fail.

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Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:55 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
That's a bit out of context, Vyr. We were talking about games that had *no* PVP element to them when Lodi talked about games with no PVP failing. It's not that Star Wars doesn't have PvP--and today's patch made a LOT of changes to world PVP to make it more meaningful. What they're dealing with now is a massive population imbalance (some claim about 5:1 on some servers) that's going to make anything PVP very difficult.

People talk about hating instanced warzones--but then they talk about population imbalance in open world (which, by the way, will NEVER go away). But the biggest problem I've seen in every game is this one of population imbalance. Ever since WoW when everyone rolled alliance to start and switched later, every game I've played has had the "dark" or "evil" or "bad" side seriously outnumber the population of the "light" or "good" side. The average MMO gamer has more interest in playing an "evil" character and no one paid a lick of attention to Bioware's repeated statements that you'd have the option of being good or evil no matter which side you were on.

Until the population stuff balances out (which it still has a chance to do--especially given how early it is and how the two sides are basically identical so there's no inherent advantage to one side (*cough* mythic *cough*) I fear that open world PvP won't reach its potential in this game (and it absolutely HAS potential).

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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Aion has had the best feeling fighting to date. It looked great and felt smooth. Unfortunately the whole Aerial combat sucked ass
along with many other problems ingame.

TOR Pvp is clucky and feels like a step back from WOW in terms of feel and looks. Sure theres the wow factor of the sabers and
explosions and whatnot but it gets very monotonous very quick. At this stage of the game in MMO's I'm expecting more overall.

Also I play a RPG because of the whole RPG thing of building a character. TOR is far too fast for my liking. The speed actually kills
the crafting aspect immensly as well. Whats the point of making stuff that you will outgro so quickly? Its easier to buy or find items
then to spend time crafting for little return. I still love crafting and would do it regardless but it feels like your pushed to NOT craft
in TOR. Or at least it feels like no one gave a damn about it in DEV.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:43 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-stock-t ... rs-6348864

You are apparently not alone.

I'm liking the game, but having a really hard time finding a reason to log in. I guess i'm so so about the game. I should have more time in two weeks to play, and i'm hoping that I'll be able to make more of a judgement about the game at that time. One thing I've noticed in the all of 10 minutes I've been able to log into the game in the last two weeks is that there are less and less people online in /gu when I sign in, though that could be a reflection of my odd play times.


Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:22 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Auros wrote:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-stock-tanks-on-star-wars-the-old-republic-fears-6348864

You are apparently not alone.

I'm liking the game, but having a really hard time finding a reason to log in. I guess i'm so so about the game. I should have more time in two weeks to play, and i'm hoping that I'll be able to make more of a judgement about the game at that time. One thing I've noticed in the all of 10 minutes I've been able to log into the game in the last two weeks is that there are less and less people online in /gu when I sign in, though that could be a reflection of my odd play times.

Most likely I was just on the other day with 22 people on :) and I'm not on alot myself the last 2-3 weeks :(.

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Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Yeah, like I said, my playtime is pretty sporadic. Really hoping to give the game a true go in another couple weeks.


Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:03 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Not to argue with you Nalth but I don't subscribe to the belief that speed = money in games. At least not gloabally. Lineage
is one of if not THE most successfull game of all time globally and it is one of the slowest paced levelling games of all time as well.

IF TOR wasn't Star Wars and was just some new MMO with an unknown background it would already be a dead game. The Star Wars
name is the only reason this game has seen so much life right from the go.

One of the reasons DAOC was successful was due to the fact that it had longevity in the game itself. you couldn't max level in a couple
weeks until years into the game when every detail was figured out as to where you could powerlevel most efficiently. However the PVP
aspect helping you level faster by opening DF was KEY to the overall success of PvP and giving PVP meaning. Without meaning you might
as well play a FPS for PVP and only then is speed to max level a benefit.

In other words, if the only object to playing the game is to get max level and pvp then yes speed is good. But that is not what the
MMORPG genre is meant to be nor is it what I would prefer.

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:46 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I have to agree with the prevailing sentiments in this thread.

The leveling treadmill is simply too fast. We had people in our guild that hit 50 before Dec was over I believe. Simply unreal. This is exactly the "hurry up and then what?" conundrum I've talked about here and in other forums about MMOs. This entire attitude of "let's get you through the tedium to get to the really "fun" end game" is not a good model.

That leads directly to my biggest beef: what do you do at end game? I know I am not alone when I say I am sick and tired of the following:

raids
daily grind for either rep/medals/pvp/commendations whatever

And the only thing that really grips me as a player is open world pvp where the dynamic is by its very nature fluid and dynamic.

So while I'm trying to get my two mains to 50 I already see the problem, as does my wife: what do we do when we get there? The class quests and story lines have been fantastic but that ends at the end game. I have no interest in getting a slightly better upgrade in gear as some kind of hook to keep me playing.

The open world pvp we were promised doesn't look that great. I know they are starting to do more with pvp but the simple reality is that their focus is going to be, just like WoW and Rift and every other MMO except a few, on end game raids and gear progression. Yawn.

As long as the game is fun I'll keep playing but once that changes I'm out. I'm hoping they do more with pvp but I'm not holding my breath.

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:40 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Ya lineage to the world did huge even lineage 2 did pretty huge. Aion was their big push to try and get the US into Korean Style MMO's. Which koreans love the level grind but they actually made it easier on the US servers then the Korean servers by adding boosts to xp and quests with more xp and whatnot I understand that people don't like that level grind but I am one as long as their is pvp along the way which is why I loved lineage 2 and aion. But I enjoy playing with you guys just as much so I can only play them so long without you guys especially since korean mmo's are big into you needing to make buddies in a game. I'm still going to play swtor in hopes the pvp gets better but with class im not on as much :(

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:54 am
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I hope one of us hits the powerball someday so we can start a game company and truly make a great mmorpg..
Or just buy DAOC rights and make daoc2 :D

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
Success in the American market is tied somewhat to a faster pace than the Asian market (where games like Lineage thrive). Aion was considered by most american players to be far too slow and grindy--and that was after it had been made significantly faster than it's Asian counterpart. Even today, after more aggressive tuning, Aion is still FAR slower than any other game on the market in the US. It has a small (but loyal) player base but NCSoft isn't exactly raking in the cash here in the USA.

My point is that you're right, Narco--if we're talking about a global game.

I know I've said this before; but with the modern budgets and expectations around MMOs (completely inflated by WoW's success, I might add), Dark Age of Camelot would NOT be seen as a successful game from a financial standpoint. It's clearly successful in the fact that people are still playing it devotedly after 10 years and that it's still pointed to by people as the greatest PvP-based MMO ever. But 250,000 subscribers at its absolute peak would be seen as nothing but a flop financially for a game that has a $100m budget.

For what its worth, I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the posts made here. That said, I'm really enjoying the story and I'll (at the very least) continue playing that through on my two toons. Hopefully things will have improved on the pvp-front by the time those guys hit max-level.

The good news is that I'm starting to hear the chorus for a 3-realm PvP game reach a critical mass. Some company is going to "get it" one of these days.

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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
IMO success in the American market is simply flavor of the month. Speed of levelling means shit compared to the overall enjoyment
of gameplay. Every game that has enough marketing is going to do well at first but their longevity really is going to rely on content
and gameplay. Currently WoW is still the standard as is evident by the amount of people still playing and every game that comes out
being compared to it.

Dungeons and Dragons wasn't popular because you could max level in it very quick. It was popular for the ride you took when you
played it. Its all about the adventure and working towards something. Daoc had both and then WoW had Adventure and a more
sportslike PvP that was meh but still popular overall.

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I don't see how success in one of the world's largest legitimate markets is "flavor of the month" but maybe that's just me.

I agree that it's all about the adventure and working towards something. I'm really enjoying what SWTOR is offering in that department right now with the story--and I wish it wasn't going to be over so quickly.

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Currently playing: Guild Wars 2 - Nelthian, Warrior
BbB Officer in DAoC, WoW, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, and GW2


Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
A large portion of the pie that makes up the buyers of the latest MMORPGs are people that expect the next big thing or
the next big game that friends are playing. It is exactly flavor of the month because they switch games as fast as they
come out and sometimes will revert back to older games if they came out with an expansion.

Marketing and Fanboism/history are the driving forces behind how well a game will do right from the start. DAoC had neither but
still gained a following due to it's gameplay and limited pool of opponents. WoW had a huge Fanboi pop and immense
history. StarWars probably has the biggest following of all time and will carry a game solely on their fanboi pop for quite
a while.



I truly believe that the next big change in MMORPGs will be to incorporate the sandbox style of Minecraft. I imagine people
building defensive walls and attacking castles made by players.

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Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
I misunderstood what you were getting at with the FOTM reference--I agree with your clarified point.

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Nalthien
Currently playing: Guild Wars 2 - Nelthian, Warrior
BbB Officer in DAoC, WoW, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, and GW2


Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:02 pm
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Post Re: Having trouble liking this game
ah my bad, I suck at getting my point across accurately.

:D

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Narco (Nahco), Finger (Finga), Nino (Neeno,Neno),
Kerropi, Kyngdomheart, Cylentstorm, Rohnn, Cympull,
Zeroiq, Corsehock, Etc....


Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:05 pm
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